♪♪
-She pulled off a stunning upset
to become Washington's newest member of Congress.
So what are the priorities
for U.S. Representative Marie Gluesemkamp Perez?
-It's more important that people know that you hear them,
and that you are understanding what they're talking about,
you are understanding their perspective.
That's next, on "Seattle University Conversations."
Now, your hosts, Professor Larry Hubbell
and Joni Balter.
-Good afternoon.
Welcome to Seattle University,
and welcome to our special guest,
who's kind of lighting up Congress right now,
U.S. Representative Marie Gluesemkamp Perez.
Thank you so much for, I believe,
representative, trekking through the snow --
the unpredicted snow -- to get here today.
So, a lot of folks in the media --
I think I've used the term myself --
have described you as "the opposite of a coastal elite."
So, in your own words, what parts of your background
do you think give you sort of extra insight
into the problems of working people?
-Well, like you mentioned, my husband and I own
an auto repair and a machine shop.
And we are an independent shop, which is kind of a dying breed.
We don't -- We're not affiliated with any,
like, auto manufacturers or dealerships.
And so, you know, the average age of our cars,
like, that we serve are, like, 20 years old,
or, you know, a dozen years old.
They're older vehicles.
And you really are embedded with your community
in a way, when you're a --
you know, like, a community auto shop.
Like, you know -- you know --
you know who's getting a divorce,
you know who can't afford their bill.
Like, you know who's getting a minivan
'cause they're pregnant.
You know, like -- so -- you know -- and...
Like, the rash of catalytic converter thefts,
you know, like, all, like, just, like, eviscerating
people's savings account, you know?
And -- And...
I think that is a really -- that is a really deep look into,
like, the intimate parts of people's lives, you know?
And it's kind of a -- it's a nice cross-section.
And, uh...
You know, and then just living in a rural community that,
you know, you have to rely on your neighbors.
Like people -- Like in the winter,
like, you drive around with the chainsaw in the back of your car
because there might be a tree across the road.
And, like, you -- you -- you need to..
You know, I don't know if, like -- you can't, like,
make your neighbors so mad they're not gonna -- right?
You've got to -- You've got to get along with each other,
because there's not a store nearby.
You might need to borrow gas.
Like, those things happen.
-What happened to the Democrats?
I mean, the Democrats used to really own the working class,
and now it's increasingly been moving towards the Republicans.
-Well, I mean, in the case of my family in particular,
I mean, I guess I could say the spotted owl.
You know, I mean, that was just...
You know, it can't be overstated, like,
how many people lost their jobs.
And -- And, like, listen, like, I know
it was a broad economic -- right?
Like, there was a lot of things
that went into the collapse of the timber market.
But I think that Democrats kind of put their head
on the poster of some of those issues
that just really --
you know, my mom grew up in Forks, Washington,
which was really kind of the epicenter of that.
And, um...
It -- It just felt like a sort of callous disregard,
and, like, "We're smarter.
We know the science."
And, you know, basically this attitude of, like,
"Do better." Like, "Go to college."
Like, "Get a real job." You know?
And...
people remember that.
People remember that.
And it -- it cuts deep.
Like, it was, like, humiliating, you know?
So, it -- and it...
It's persistent.
-Now, you're a first-termer, and you seem to get on to
the committees that you wanted to be on,
which was Agriculture and Small Business.
How were you able to work that?
-Yeah, that was quite the lobby because --
You know, so, the farm bill is, like, every five years.
And it's considered one of the must-piece passes
of legislation.
And so, suddenly, everyone wants to be on ag every,
you know, five years, every three terms.
And so, it did take a lot of lobbying to do that.
And...
I think one of the useful pieces was, for me,
like, there are a lot of members of Congress
that represent rural districts broadly,
but they tend to live in the urban part
of the rural district, or, like, in the city
in the rural part -- you know, in the rural district.
So, I think I am one of the members that actually lives
in the rural part of a rural district.
And, like, you know, like, I get my water from a well.
I get my Internet from a radio tower.
Like those things --
-At the end of three gravel roads, I was told.
-Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
And, you know, the price of gravel is going -- right?
So, I think that was a salient point.
And I think...
You know, one of the heartening things,
or, like, encouraging things, for me is that, like,
my colleagues in the House,
like, they -- they want to understand rural issues.
Like, they want to hear from us.
Like, I was invited to speak
at one of the Messaging Committee meetings,
and be the -- you know?
They -- They truly do want to understand,
because, I mean, the writing's on the wall,
in many ways, electorally.
Um, and also...
I think...
some of the issues that -- that we care about most,
as Democrats -- like, you know,
drug abuse, housing, you know, economic issues,
like, those -- those things are manifest in rural communities
in a way that we need to understand, and be relevant in.
So, I was able to sort of, like, leverage my background
to get a good spot.
Um, and yeah, it was -- it was -- it was fortunate.
I feel like, you know, I got ranking member position
for the Small Business Committee on, um,
Rural Development, Energy, and Supply Chain --
which, like, you couldn't make a better committee for me.
So, that was -- that was really fortunate.
-I understand you also had some gripes with the SBA.
-I do, yeah.
So, that's -- that's the story.
So, my my husband and I actually...
um, had a terrible landlord, and we bought our building
with a loan from the SBA.
We were able to buy a separate building, and move in.
And I have an undergraduate degree in economics,
it literally took me a year to fill out that application.
You know, when you think about how many small business owners
actually have the capacity to do that.
Like, the regulatory hurdle, it just means that the dollars
aren't going to who does -- you know,
might put them to the highest use,
but to the people who can hire a consultant to get the grant
or to get the loan.
And we see that all over rural communities.
It is so...
You know, I was actually the -- you know, the part-time director
for a Stephenson downtown association,
which is a rural economic development kind of...
And I remember filling out these grants
from the state of Washington, trying to --
trying to build a park.
And going to the grant hearing.
And I show up, and there -- it's all consultants.
The bigger cities have all hired people
who are obviously better dressed than me.
They have really nice graphics to sell their parks with.
They have, like, great renderings, beautiful images.
And they're a lot more successful
at getting these grants.
And it's just -- it's so frustrating to rural communities
to feel like, um...
we're not on a level playing field.
The regulatory hurdles, the administrative hurdles,
are just too high for us to effectively,
you know, tell our story.
-You've talked a lot during the campaign,
and even since you've been in Washington,
about a right-to-repair bill.
Can you explain to all of us what that is,
and what steps you're taking to --
to to get that through this -- this term, I think.
-Yeah, so, I'm one of the co-sponsors on the Repair Act.
But broadly, right repair is something
that we should -- we should all care about,
not just people -- mechanics, you know?
And the sort of genesis of right to repair is,
actually, John Deere tractor put a chip on their engines.
And only the dealerships were authorized
to unlock these engines.
And it was in the terms-of-service contract.
So, an entire year make and model of
one of the first years they did this,
all these farmers didn't actually have
the legal right to fix their own tractors,
or to take them to independent shops.
And people that work in ag know that, like,
you only have a couple of days to cut hay
when it's maximally nutritive to stock.
It's, like, when the seed head is fully formed,
but before it's fallen off the stock.
So, it's a very tight timeline
to have hay that's worth anything.
And lo and behold, these tractors all, you know,
crap out at the same time.
And there are not enough dealerships
to get these tractors fixed.
And millions of dollars of hay are lost.
The price of beef goes up.
Everything goes up, you know?
And -- And farmers come out with their pitchforks,
and -- and they're just enraged that they don't have
the legal right to fix their own stuff.
And so, right to repair laws sort of go back to where we --
you know, we assume, as consumers, that we have,
you know, the right to fix our own stuff.
But that's being taken away from us.
And it's not just tractors.
You know, like, remember, like, the first iPhones,
you could replace the battery on,
and you can't do that anymore without voiding -- you know?
And so, it's consumer electronics,
it's home medical equipment,
things where it's, like,
"I just need to replace a battery,"
or "I just need to replace a gasket.
And I can save $2,000 or $10,000."
You know, so, it -- it is hitting the middle class
especially hard.
Like, I'm someone that has never bought a new car in my life,
and I depend on a secondary market for used cars
that people have fixed, and maintained them.
And when we don't allow that work to happen,
we eviscerate the secondary market.
Things that should be reusable,
and move through a couple different owners,
instead become disposable, and they go to the landfill.
And so, environmentalists should also be enraged about this,
because it's terrible for the environment,
it's terrible for the middle class.
I think it's terrible for our character, as Americans,
because I really believe part of our national identity is that
we are a country where we believe in fixing things.
And we are sort of -- we have this DIY ethos
that you don't see in a lot of other countries.
Like, you know, we'll -- we'll paint our own walls,
we'll -- we'll change our own brakes.
Like, we'll do stuff that's a little more rare
in other places.
And when we take away the right to fix stuff,
like, that sort of knowledge gets passed down
in families, right?
You have to learn from --
-Throwaway society. -Right.
-Throw it out. -Right.
You know?
And -- And if you skip a generation,
you lose the ability --
like, the next generation is just, like, hosed,
in terms of knowing how to check their oil,
and how to do these things.
And yeah, so, it sounds like a niche issue,
but I argue that this is actually
a very pivotal piece of our culture and our environment.
-And so, by high-profiling it yourself,
do you do you think that, in this term,
you'll you'll be able to -- to get somewhere?
-Well, it's tricky.
There are different pieces of legislation
that are more narrowly or more broadly focused.
And so, I think that it's --
it's possible we will get parts of it done.
But it's going to take a long time --
Well, I think it's gonna take, you know,
a little a little bit of a longer horizon
to get to the heart of the issue,
and -- and finding which pieces
we can get through the House and the Senate,
and, you know, finding those coalitions.
And it's always a challenge because it's like, well,
we can get the ag community on board for one thing.
So, do we leverage that when -- you know, and try to loop in
the home medical equipment, also, with that?
Or do we go more narrow and quicker?
It's all a...
It's all about building coalitions.
-Given your great affinity
for the working class and middle class,
how does that translate, in terms of public policy,
aside from your -- it sounds like your skepticism
about the Endangered Species Act?
-Um...
So...
I think tax policy really matters --
like, a clarity and ease of tax policy,
and a fair, equitable system.
That's one of the reasons that I voted against --
you know, they were essentially defunding the IRS.
Like, right now we have a hugely underfunded IRS.
And, you know, what they do when they have an underfunded staff
is they go after the easiest tax returns.
The simplest tax returns are typically ones
that have earned income tax credit --
so, people that work for a living.
You know, when you're talking about a billionaire who's got
offshore accounts, and three different corpo--
or, you know, five different corporations,
and all kinds, those much more complex
tax returns have a much lower rate of being audited.
And so, you know, the idea is that,
by having more IRS agents,
we'll have the manpower to go after the fraud
we know is happening, especially in the higher income brackets.
And, you know, the Congressional Budget Office,
which is nonpartisan -- it's just --
you know, it's just economists.
Their estimate was that,
by more adequately funding the IRS,
we would reduce the national deficit by $114 million
over 10 years.
Like, that's nothing to sneeze at, right?
Like, this is...
this is real money.
And it's -- it's -- it's good policy.
-Billion?
$114 billion, or million?
-I think it depends on the horizon.
Yeah.
-So, you've been quoted several times
criticizing your own Democratic Party.
Can you just elaborate on a few details of that?
Like, so, what are some of the biggest mistakes
you think the Democrats make, and...
-Yeah, I mean, I think Democrats can be really obsessed
with being right all the time.
And they're sort of missing the point.
You know, it's -- it's more important that people know
that you hear them,
and that you are understanding what they're talking about,
you are understanding their perspective.
-Like, I think about...
right, there's the famous quote --
there's, like "lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Right?
And so, we get very obsessed with like,
"Oh, well, this study says this."
And as somebody that studied economics in undergrad,
I know that the way that you design the study
really can pre-determine the outcome of a study.
And so, it matters what horizon of things we're talking about.
You know, like, particularly in timber policy,
it's like we are not even meeting our own --
like, you know, the Forest Service is like,
I think we're pulling 30% of the board feet
off the woods that we say we should be pulling,
that they they should be pulling.
And instead, we're Importing wood
from places that have much lower environmental standards
than we do.
And so, when you think about the global carbon cost
of what we're doing, like, there needs to be a balance, you know?
And when you think about. wildfires,
you know, you think about the carbon emissions
of massive wildfires, you know,
we need a bigger picture.
And people are bringing up valid points
that deserve to be brought into the conversation.
So, I mean, those are --
those are some of the things I think about.
You know, maybe that's a little bit more
of a narrow answer than you're asking.
-No, no, no.
It fits into kind of some of the things I've read,
and some of the things I'm thinking about.
And I also saw a quote from you talking about, sometimes,
the Democrats will focus on the poorest of the poor,
but then, when they go into a community --
and you describe this in one of the pieces I've read --
you know, that they end up
not answering the questions of folks --
working class, middle class.
-I mean, it is a real problem that our teachers
can't afford to buy houses.
You know, I mean, homeownership really matters
across the spectrum.
And, like, we'll just talk about very low income housing a lot,
and just, like, really hammer on housing as a human right.
And it's like, yes, that is true,
but when we're not addressing the fact that, like,
no one in my generation is able to get their foot
in the door of the housing market,
we're kind of missing the forest for the trees.
Like, there is a really big problem going on,
And -- And like...
When we focus on just the worst of the worst,
it's also alienating,
because nobody thinks of themselves as --
nobody wants to think of themselves as, like,
the -- the -- the least resourced person.
You know?
And -- And it just feels like we're --
you know, the middle class, I think,
often feels like we're being talked past,
or you sort of have to...
you sort of have to, like, pretend like things are worse
for you than they are to be relevant to
the conversation, or something.
Like -- you know -- it's just --
It's hard for people to feel included in or relevant in
a lot of these policies.
-You've said in multiple forums
that you're a strong supporter of the Second Amendment.
And I'm wondering whether you would like to see
further restrictions on the purchase or use of guns.
Yeah, I mean, that's -- that's another issue where,
like, rural -- it just is really different for --
for rural communities.
You know...
And -- And, you know, I say that as somebody like --
my son's gonna go to public school, you know, my --
you know, and I -- I really think about that,
you know?
And I -- And I -- And my husband both,
really thought about, like...
when you run for public office,
like, your chances of being shot are pretty high.
And, like, you know, we've...
gotten threats.
You know, I mean, it's --
you know, gun violence is -- is real and relevant to me.
But I also think that the Second Amendment
is part of the Constitution.
And, you know, in terms of additional restrictions,
like, I think -- one thing I think about is,
like, increasing the age of purchasing assault weapons
to 21 -- or what are known as assault weapons,
commonly called "assault weapons" -- to 21.
I think that's -- that is something that makes sense.
-Should more restrictions be put on assault weapons
besides the age?
-Uh...
Yeah, I think the age is the -- is the first --
you know, and that is the thing that makes sense.
You know?
I think that a lot of...
You know, a lot of the issues are.
you know, mental health is a big part of the picture,
and a lack of access to, like, career trajectories that,
like, makes sense for you.
Um, I think that, you know...
I actually think that eviscerating career
and technical education in our public schools
is probably part of the problem.
Honestly.
I know a lot of people, you know, a lot of my friends
stayed in school because they liked shop class.
You know, and you start pulling those things out,
you start telling people that, if you don't go to college,
you did something wrong with your life,
or you're not very smart.
Like, that is very damaging.
And the long --
you know, I think it's had long-term repercussions
in a lot of the problems we're seeing today.
-Like, I'm part of the generation where, like,
all of our shop classes, like,
got turned into computer programing classes.
And, like, I think that was just a huge mistake.
Like, we have to return the prestige to the trades broadly.
Like, you know...
in Germany, for instance...
they recognize that, like,
kids are gifted in mechanical aptitude,
or kinetic brilliance.
And, you know. they're...
at a -- at, like, third or fourth grade, you know,
they'll say, "Hey, like, your kid has a talent.
You might want to steward this.
You might want to go in that direction."
And we have no problem doing that for reading or math
for our very young kids.
But we don't acknowledge the full spectrum of gifts
that kids can be born with.
And instead, we've made it something that's,
you know, embarrassing.
And so, I think that this is one of the cultural shifts, going --
getting back to the place where we respect work,
where we respect the trades.
That's something that's gonna do --
a prof--
that will have a profound. I think, impact,
on our mental health,
on a lot of these societal issues that we're seeing.
-Sort of rolling through the issues here.
You support abortion rights.
Are there any limits
that you think government should place on abortion rights?
-No. Like, that's the thing is, like,
when you start having the government
make laws about who gets what -- Like, I don't want
a 20-year-old staffer bro telling me
when I can get a medical procedure and when I can't.
And that's what ends up happening.
Like, even if you've been pregnant,
you have a very narrow spectrum of how much can go wrong,
how quickly, and at what point.
And we are seeing now -- With, you know,
Roe vs. Wade falling, like, we are seeing
really horrific stories play out all across the country.
And the government should not have a role in deciding
who gets what medical attention when.
-During the campaign, the primary campaign,
you noted, in an ad, that your predecessor,
former representative Jaime Herrera Beutler
"rewarded the special interests and ignored us."
Yet, you made a point of hiring several members of her staff.
Why did you do that?
-Well, I think that it's important to have a staff
that is reflective of the district.
And, also, these are hugely talented people that know --
You know, they know the issues.
And I think it's actually really healthy.
Like, I often challenge people --
It's like, "How many Republicans are you friends with?
How many Democrats are you friends with?
Like, you should have a bipartisan
sphere of influence around you."
You know, like, if your ideas are right, like,
you should let them be challenged and you should have
you know -- Right?
As, you know, iron sharpens iron,
so, you know, man sharpens man.
Like, you know, you should have a healthy debate,
and so it's important to, I think,
build a bipartisan staff and maintain that.
-Sort of with that in mind, I read a story
where you describe
that you sometimes see your colleagues walking around
with an actual list of party recommendations
for how to vote on upcoming legislation,
and you don't do that.
So, I wonder, what's been the reaction to that?
Are party purists annoyed at you or are they intrigued or...
-It can be -- Yeah, it can be kind of harrowing, like,
taking votes that you know aren't going to be popular.
It's -- Yeah, it is a little bit alienating.
But, you know, it's --
And you have to weigh the cost of doing it.
Like, there's a cost of not voting the party line, you know?
-But, I mean, you read what they're recommending.
-Oh, yeah, yeah.
-It's not like, "Oh, I'm not interested,"
but then -- You know what I mean?
But it's just I wonder if
they're annoyed at you at this point.
-It probably depends on the member
whether or not they're annoyed at me.
You know, it depends on their perspective.
or their district that they're from.
I mean, it's so funny, because some of these --
Some, they're just like, "I would be primaried."
You know?
Like, that's -- You know, things that --
Everybody just comes from such different districts,
and if you only hang out with people
that come from districts like you,
that can, I think, really narrow your perspective on what
the world looks like.
-You opted not to join some of the House Democratic caucuses,
specifically the progressives and the moderates
in the New Democratic Coalition.
Why did you make that decision?
-Yeah, I actually haven't joined any ideologically aligned
caucuses just because I don't feel like there's one that fits.
You know, I don't fit neatly into one or the other.
-And, in fairness, I mean, you were under some pressure,
since the moderates and the progressives either are
or were led by fellow members of the Washington delegation.
-Right, right.
They're friends that lead these, you know?
And so -- And it's not at all a slight on them.
And I'm not saying I won't ever join.
But I think especially as a new, freshman member
really taking my time
and finding my own path and my own --
you know, my own set of people that
I'm kind of looking to, I think I want to be
really careful in how I
sort of build my, you know, tribe, my people.
-I want to move along to the bridge over the Columbia River.
-Yeah.
-We've been talking about this for such a long time.
What is your position? Replacement? Repair? Light rail?
-Yeah, I mean, the best bridge is the bridge that gets built.
Like, I actually -- If I have my baby in the car,
I do not drive across -- There's --
So, there's actually two bridges right in parallel.
One of them is from, like, Eisenhower, you know?
There's one that's --
It just celebrated its 106th birthday.
So, that's the one going south into Portland.
So, I don't drive on that one if I've got my kid.
-Time to buy a cake, right? -Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, we take the 205 otherwise.
So, it is -- And one of the interesting things is, like,
people think that it's free to maintain old infrastructure.
It's expensive.
Like, the 205 -- I think they spend like
70K a year maintaining and operating the 205.
-Would you describe what the 205, where it goes --
-Oh, the 205 is, like,
the parallel highway further south.
-Okay.
-And, right, it's like, maintaining and operating
the I-5 bridge is like $1.2 million a year.
And that's just kind of a sunk cost.
And I know that we're talking about
specifically the I-5 project,
but that goes for so much of our infrastructure.
Like, we are choosing the most
expensive option for our infrastructure in America,
which is just letting stuff decay.
-So replacement. -Oh, yeah.
We need to replace it.
-And what about light rail?
And what about tolling and all of that?
-Yeah, I mean, a lot of those are, like --
It is kind of a bad idea, I think, for the federal level
to get to like, "I want the bridge this color."
Like, I want to get the most federal dollars
I can to get that bridge done as fast as we can
with Southwest Washington labor and with American-made steel.
Like, those are the priorities that I'm thinking about.
And, you know, if they need light rail,
you know, if they need tolling, like, those are
gonna be a little more local decisions.
My job is to, like, get the money here.
-And what's the likelihood that that would actually
make any progress during your two-year term?
-I don't think right now -- I think they're talking 2025
is the estimated start date,
but those funding dollars need to start lining up now.
-Wouldn't hey need to be secured during this term?
-Right. -Yeah.
-Many of them.
-And likelihood? Thoughts about that?
-So, it depends on how they -- Like, it is --
I think that there is more funding available
if they choose to have a bridge design with light rail
or that's light-rail-ready.
Like, those projects just are more competitive
for national funding.
-And also just for the future of climate change.
-Right. Well, and that's why they're more competitive.
You know, that's why they have a higher chance of success.
-You've indicated a willingness to work
on both sides of the aisle for legislation.
How do you decide which members
you can trust enough to work on a bill together?
-Well, that's -- Yeah, actually,
running an auto shop is, like, very similar, too,
like, because you have --
-Pull up the hood. -Well, you know -- Yeah, right.
You have a customer come in, and if I don't know them,
you know, if they're a new customer, like,
I'm trying to -- 'Cause, you know,
I'll do $1,200 of work for them,
and then I have to decide if they're going to
take advantage of me or not.
Like, you know we've had customers say like,
"I want a 40% discount or I'm going to give you
a bad Google review."
Like, that happens all the time. -Ooh!
-And so you have to develop a strong read on people, you know?
-That's true.
-That's how we pay our mortgage
is by being good at judging people.
And so that's come -- I think that's been a positive.
You know, but the other thing is, like,
if I only work with people that I really like,
like, I'm not gonna -- Like, it's gonna a narrow team,
right?
So we have to build a broad coalition
to get things done.
-Well, I have a question about that.
Are there any -- It's great that you're talking about
and doing working across the aisle.
A lot more people need to do that.
But are there any members of Congress who are too far
right to kind of trust?
And not to stir up too much trouble here,
but what about a national divorce,
you know, red states and blue states?
-Oh, that is just -- what that is --
that is not serious policy.
That is fundraising.
That is fund-- Like, and, I mean, I think
one of the sort of disturbing
or interesting things about being in Congress is seeing how
people actually are much more
moderate when the TV cameras aren't on.
Like, it is effective fundraising
to say stuff like that.
-Well, because we're talking about it.
-Right. Yeah. It raises the profile.
You know, you don't get famous by being normal.
[ Laughter ]
So -- But, like, I voted on an amendment that Lauren Boebert
put forward.
Like, if it's a good idea, I'm going to support it.
It doesn't -- Like, crazy people can have good ideas sometimes.
-Duly noted. Duly noted. [ Laughter ]
-As a first-term member of Congress,
what do you expect to be able to accomplish?
And are your options even more limited,
especially given the fact
that the majority of the houses are now Republicans?
-Yeah, that's -- It is interesting.
Like, we haven't -- We don't have a lot of, like,
history to judge either leadership off of.
You know, there isn't that --
You know, Nancy Pelosi was in forever, right?
We had a long period of time to say,
"This is how she operates."
We don't have that with Jeffries and Clark or McCarthy
and Scalise.
Like, we don't.
And so we're still seeing --
You know, one bright flash of hope is, like,
one of my amendments on a bill was one of five
that were ruled in order.
And so it was surprising that they'd let a Democrat bill
or amendment make it to the floor.
That was encouraging.
That said, like, legislation moves on, like, geologic time.
Like, it is not small business.
Like, it is a much more difficult process to, like,
build those coalitions.
So I think it's likely that I will be more effective or,
like, more of the good that I can do will come through
ways other than legislation.
It's going to take time.
Like, I think that I have already been
effective in agenda setting and sort of talking about, like,
bringing issues to attention
and, you know, just talking with other members
about issues that are important and, like, explaining
to other members, like, the difference between assembly
and manufacturing.
You know, those things -- Like, those conversations are,
I think will have -- It's like a ripple effect.
-And do you see yourself being on both the committees,
both agriculture and small business for the long term?
-They are great committees for me. Yeah.
I'm very optimistic that those are places
I'll be able to be in for -- well, hopefully a long while.
[ Laughter ] Yeah.
-I'm not sure if this is the right moment for this question,
but can you tell us about the ax throwing?
How did you get into this recreational activity?
And you even have a -- You have a victory
to tell us about, right?
-Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I think I'm like the fourth-place champ--
one of the fourth-place champions in Skamania County
for ax throwing.
-Does it have, like, a runner's high and stuff like that?
-Well, so, we have a timber carnival every year,
and a lot of, like -- A lot of --
You know, Morton has, like, the Loggers Jub--
Like, there's a lot of timber carnivals around the state.
And, yeah, I --
Ax throwing is -- you know, you see the timber carnival,
and, you know, they're fun.
And it's just really meaningful to get to, like,
throw your uncle's ax, you know, or your great-uncle's ax or --
It's just -- It's something --
-Did they use it for that, too? For ax throwing?
-Yeah. Yeah. -Okay.
-I mean, so, it's -- -In addition to other things.
-Yeah, so, it's a double-headed ax,
and it's something. that you would use for, like,
clearing when you're going out and estimating how many
board feet are in a given --
-Oh. -Yeah.
-I didn't know that. -Yeah, yeah.
I'm the second-place choker setter, though.
That's where I really shine. -Wait, wait.
Your staff said you came in third in ax throwing
at the Skamania timber carnival.
-You know, I don't know if it was third or fourth.
I'll have to -- I'll look. I did get $5.
-Oh, wow. -Yeah.
[ Laughter ] Yeah.
-Well, well.
-You received only 50.1%
of the vote in the general election.
Your opponent, as many people in the audience know,
was a member of the far right,
which probably turned off some moderate voters
and independent voters.
How can you continue to gain the support of enough moderate
Republicans and independents to win again in 2024?
-Yeah, I am the only freshman
in Congress that flipped a Trump plus-5 district.
Like, I flipped the biggest-margin district.
And I think flipping is a term that people use a lot.
I don't know how accurate it is, because I don't --
Ultimately, like, when you lift up the hood,
like, I don't think it was really about people
did not change their views on things significantly.
I think I'm just talking about issues
that matter more to more people.
You know, and they're not the things that you see broadly --
you know, broadcast on Twitter or, you know,
network television.
But there are things that people are really passionate about,
and I think that because of who I am --
Like, I didn't run an auto shop because I wanted
to run for Congress.
Like, I, you know, run an auto shop because I like
fixing things and, you know, love being --
-Cool metaphor. -[ Laughs ]
Yeah, that is true. Yeah.
It lends itself to a lot of puns,
most of which I -- you know, we do not use,
But, yeah, and, so, I think it's just -- It's relevant.
-Like, if it's broken, fix it? -Yeah.
Well, yeah, keeping the wheels --
I mean, it just goes on and on and on.
But a lot of --
I think, generally, the system of politics where, like,
you run for -- You know, and, also, like, by the way,
run for school board.
I'm here to tell -- Like, people need to, like,
run for these seats.
But the system where you try to, like, work your --
You do these things so that you can get to higher office
and you sit on these boards so you can --
You know, I think that system is bankrupt.
Like, I don't think that's what
most Americans want in their electeds.
Like, I think they want people that live normal lives,
that are living the same lives they are,
that are trying to pay the mortgage,
that are trying to get an SBA loan,
that are on eight waiting lists for daycare, you know?
Like, that stuff resonates.
And it's, I think, part of how we are going to
build a Congress that looks more like America.
I mean, so, you asked about 2024.
And, you know, Joe Kent is running again.
He announced that on the Steve Bannon show.
And, you know, I think there's a really
sort of calcified -- There's a very hard base
of support that persists for him,
that does not believe that --
Like, there are so many conspiracy theories
about me and how I won and where I came from.
And, you know, just it goes on and on and on.
And those folks really bought into that.
And I think that in this district,
like, it's a very unique -- or it's a very interesting mix
of, like, enough really hard, deep, deep
you know, right-of-right folks
that it's enough to carry people like Joe Kent
through the primary.
-Now, you could have Joe Kent as an opponent in 2024,
but you might have a more moderate candidate,
like Jaime Herrera Beutler.
Who would you consider the more -- the tougher opponent?
-That's a good question.
I mean, like I said, like, I think that the
sort of brand of established politician is not what
people are excited about right now.
You know, and I think that will persist regardless of
who I run against.
And I'm hopeful that, you know, my time in Congress --
Like, if I only get two years, like, I'm working my tail off to
make sure that that was a powerful two years
and we got to change things about
how the system works, who gets listened to,
what our priorities are.
And so, you know, we're working hard to
be relevant and be effective partners for folks.
-If you don't mind me telling the audience your age,
you're 34 years old.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
-Is your age of benefit or is it a drawback?
-I don't know how -- Like, it is an insane schedule.
Like, running a small business is a 24/7 job.
Like, you know, being in Congress
can feel like two 24/7 jobs.
Like, it's a lot.
And so, yeah, I think that it's definitely an asset
to have more stamina.
And, you know, I mean, I guess folks replace
that with more experience, you know?
That's ideally what happens.
I think there's probably benefits to both.
Yeah.
-So, I feel a little uncomfortable bringing up attire
when talking with a female politician.
However, you were recently part of the story
in The New York Times
about Senator John Fetterman from Pennsylvania.
And, you know, he's known for wearing shorts and hoodies.
But you had an encounter with him. You spoke to him.
I'd appreciate it if you could tell us, tell our audience
about that encounter and sort of more
why you feel an affinity with the senator from Pennsylvania.
-Yeah, so, there was a reception for
newly elected members of Congress,
which is -- you know, that's the House and the Senate.
And, so, I was wearing, you know,
my Carhartt jacket and jeans,
because I think that it's important, "A,"
to, like, be who you are, right?
And I think I'm proud of working in the trades.
And I think that -- you know, that representation matters,
and so I just am who I am.
And, so, I went to this reception,
and Fetterman's there.
And he, like -- He stands out.
You know, he looks -- -He's a little tall, right?
-He's tall.
He's tall and he also is just --
You know, he's got a very unique profile.
And, so, I, like, saw him and I was like,
"Oh, that's Senator Fetterman."
And I hadn't seen him before.
So I walked up and introduced myself.
And it took him a minute.
And he kind of, like, looked at what
I was wearing and he was like,
"Why does she get to wear jeans, you know?"
[ Laughter ]
So, I don't know.
Maybe we'll see him in a hoodie going forward.
I hope so.
If that sparks joy for him, he should do it, you know?
-But do you feel a connection, like, in sort of
public profile, persona with him?
-I think that we have a lot of the same --
A lot of the same issues matter to us both.
Yeah. Yeah.
-Okay, let's switch to a completely different area.
That's foreign policy.
Today is the one-year anniversary of
Russia's war against Ukraine.
Well, actually, it's the second term --
or the second wave of the invasion,
because they actually took over Crimea
more than seven years ago.
But what's your position on this war?
Do you think, in the long run, that American resolve
could fade in terms of its support for Ukraine?
-I don't think America -- I mean --
Well, I think this is -- One of the interesting things
about this engagement is, like,
they have been very transparent and broad--
You know, they broadcast Putin's goals.
Like, they -- Remember they were telling us
for weeks in advance, like, they're going
to invade Ukraine.
And, lo and behold, they invade Ukraine, you know?
And -- Putin does.
And, you know, now they're showing
Putin wants to take over Belarus,
Putin wants to take over Moldova.
Like, we should take them seriously,
and maybe if we had taken them seriously
when they invaded Crimea in 2014, we wouldn't be here.
And so I think the cost -- I think a lot of people
are, "A," very committed to protecting.
these democratically elected -- you know, these countries
that support democracy and increasingly
concerned about what's going on with Russia
and the Wagner Group.
And, I mean, it is very ugly stuff,
and I think the cost of -- the cost of not
acting -- right? -- is pretty high,
because if Ukraine falls,
there goes Belarus, there goes Moldova,
there goes Poland.
Like, where's that going to end?
-Mm-hmm.
Some Republicans seem to be less than enthusiastic
about supporting Ukraine in the war.
Do you think this will continue to be
a bipartisan support for Ukraine in the Congress?
-Yeah, I think they're relatively divided over that.
You know, and I think that --
My sense is, the appetite for sending troops
is never going to -- You know, that's not happening.
But I think broadly, overall, a strong majority
of us are supporting continued military support.
-Well, I would just ask you, what have you heard
in your own district, like, at a town hall or something?
Is the resolve still there or what do you --
-Oh, yeah.
I mean, we actually have quite a few
Ukrainians, for one thing.
We have a lot of, you know, people that have left Russia
also who have strong feelings about this also.
And so, yeah, there is definitely continued support.
-Do you see this this war as strengthening or weakening NATO
in the sense that, after all,
NATO members have provided lots of arms to the Ukrainians?
-I mean, I think NATO is more unified
than it's been in a long time and very relevant.
And...yeah.
-So, I want to go back to the campaign just for a second.
You know, just the way this rolled out
and, you know, how you surprised so many people.
Were you really prepared to actually win?
Like, there were experts at the time,
pollsters saying you had like a -- What was it?
A 2% chance to pull this off? -Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
-Did you really get your brain around that you could win?
-Oh, yeah.
I mean, I would not have put my life in a blender
if I didn't think I could win.
Like, I -- -Actual blender.
-Yeah, no, I knew -- I mean, I know my district.
Like, I know -- I knew that Jamie was
very vulnerable and I knew that the support for Joe was,
like, very deep, but, you know, very narrow.
By which I mean, you know,
like, they're very ardent supporters, but not enough,
not a critical mass of them.
Like, normal people don't want to ban all immigration
for 20 years or whatever he was talking about.
I mean, that's crazy pants.
And, so, I --
You know, and my husband, you know, initially was, like,
very reluctant to -- You know, 'cause it's a family decision.
It just is. -It really is.
-And he was very reluctant in the beginning.
And I was like, "Why?"
Like, you know, because he's the kind of man
who, like -- You know, he really believes me.
Like, he was like, "If she runs, she's going to win."
You know, so his commitment, you know --
And I think we actually just hit a year.
It was like a year ago that we rolled out our campaign.
It was like a year and four days or something like that.
So, you know, it was something that
I knew it was going to take a lot of work.
I knew it was going to take things falling, you know --
the right things falling into place.
But...yeah.
-Members of Congress, I understand,
have received briefings on the spy balloons.
And I wonder if you can give us any scoop here
about either the large sky balloon
or the other small science project.
-Including the science project, right?
-Yeah. I mean, those briefings are, like, classified.
But I think that one thing that has been in the media
and remains true is that by not shooting them down
when they were -- "A," you can't --
you know, recovering something out of the Bering Sea
is, like, very, very difficult compared to, like,
the coast of South Carolina.
Very, very different.
And, so, we learned a lot by recovering it
and we also learned a lot by seeing where
it was programmed to go, what their interests are.
You know, like, the way that I kind of think about it is like
if you see your weird neighbor, like, creeping around
your property, you know, sometimes it's worth, like --
what are they looking at, right?
You don't always want to go out...
-Did this happen or are you just -- No.
-...guns blazing, you know?
That's not always the strategic choice.
-By waiting to shoot it off the Carolina coast,
were they still able to recover the necessary information?
-Oh, yeah. It was basically recovered intact,
as far as -- I mean, most of it was recovered.
-So, you think that some of the Republican criticism
was unfounded?
-Well --
-Because they were saying it should have been
shot down earlier.
-Well, and I think it's also -- It's not even, like,
the R.D. thing.
It's like, people have this idea that no one lives in Montana.
Like, people live in Montana.
And, like, the thing was like
three school buses, like, wide.
Like, it was massive.
And, so, you know, the whole goal of our security is
to keep Americans safe.
And so, you know, like, take --
Like, have three school buses falling out of the sky,
you know, that is actually,
I think, one of the examples of the way that people
just don't have a clear picture of
what rural America really is.
-In Biden's -- In President Joe Biden's
State of the Union message,
he seemed to be talking a lot like you do sometimes,
talking to working-class folks who went to college or not.
Did you hear anything about folks saying, "Wow."
Like, that they were surprised
or that they didn't like the way he was speaking?
Did he connect with voters in your district?
-Yeah, you know, that was a wild --
So, I actually brought -- My State of the Union guest was
the high-school shop teacher from Kalama High School,
Corey Torppa, who is amazing.
He has got a phenomenal -- His program --
they are building a house from the ground up
and then they sell the house at auction,
and the proceeds go back into the program.
Like, it is a phenomenal program.
He's just a very smart, very passionate guy.
And I was like -- It felt like Biden's speech was
pretty well talking to the issues that matter to us.
-Do you think Joe Biden should run again?
Sorry to --
-Well, I mean, honestly,
I'm thinking more about my race than his race.
So, yeah, I'll let him make that decision.
-Well, let me ask it another way.
Would having him on the top of the ticket --
do you think it would help you?
-I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, I think that there's --
you know, you work with what you're dealt, you know?
But I don't know.
And I don't know what the sort of
cost of an ugly primary would be either, right?
-Mm-hmm. And being in a Republican district,
is it a bit more of a liability running in a presidential year?
-You know, I honestly -- Like, I --
The things that, like -- that I talk about are --
generally speaking, they are not things
that Biden is talking about.
I mean, broadly -- I mean, you know,
the State of the Union was kind of surprising,
but, like, they're not things that other
national Democrats tend to be talking about.
And so it almost feels like I'm sort of doing my own thing.
You know, the national agenda -- you know, that matters,
but, like, if I'm talking about sort of culture-war issues,
I'm not talking -- I'm not relevant.
I'm not doing my job, because those are things that, like --
That narrative is shaped around fundraising.
It's not the things that make people's lives better.
It's not making Social Security solvent.
You know, it's not fixing the tax code.
You know, it's not getting our schools up, you know,
where we need them are so our teachers
are able to buy houses.
Like, those are not the things
that end up in political commercials.
-Well, just flipping that.
So, what kind of issues would you emphasize in order to
encourage fundraising for your own candidacy?
-Oh, for me?
Mm. I mean, I guess I don't.
I guess -- I mean, in terms of issues that --
I mean, what do I fundraise off of?
I think I -- The goodwill of people that
think I'm telling them the truth, you know,
that think that -- You know, and I think
that's what is kind of how I have stamina
is just, like, being myself
and talking about the things that matter to me.
And it's been a very lucky coincidence
that the things that impact my life
are things that are impacting other people's lives, too.
Like, you know, like, we had our shop windows
broken four times this year, you know?
Like, those things -- like, they matter to people
because they are -- Or I guess 2022.
But they're the things that, you know, are important
to, you know, the middle, the broad middle.
-Well, maybe talking about things like our shop windows
broken four times connects with people who are thinking,
you know, that public safety isn't exactly rocking right now
in many communities.
So I imagine folks talk to you about that
and said that that means something to them.
And so what would your role be in that
as part of the federal government?
-Well, one of the problems is that, like,
federal dollars are almost exclusively directed
towards capital projects or, like, capital expenses
and not operating expenses, especially for the police.
So, like, I don't know anybody who's left
the police department because they didn't have
night-vision goggles.
They leave because, you know, the starting wage
is like $35,000 a year right now across America.
-Like, it is, like -- It's a joke, you know?
And so that's the role that I think
the federal government -- And, like, I was talking to the
sheriff of Thurston County, Derek --
I'm forgetting his last name.
And he was like, "You know, we're getting body cameras
and night-vision goggles, like, thrown at us.
Like I started putting body cameras on the dogs."
[ Laughter ] Like, no joke.
Like, because -- And, meanwhile, we have all these vacancies.
You know, they can't staff up.
And so, you know, their folks are, like,
stressed out and they're -- you know, they're not --
You know, they don't have the time for the training
and they don't -- You know, it's just --
It's bad business, you know?
-So there has to be probably more coordination
between the capital items
that the federal government can help with
and then the local decisions that are being made on staffing.
-Well, and it's not even just local decisions.
Like, they are fighting tooth and nail.
Like, so many counties and so many cities are, like --
They are just, like --
You know, you'll get trained in Thurston County
and then you'll get hired by King County, you know,
or you'll -- You know, it's just -- It's a real competition.
And people -- they're not able to hang on to talent,
especially in smaller communities or the county level.
But, well, my argument is like,
it's not even necessarily about coordination.
It's about the kinds of things that the feds want to fund.
-But do you think some of the messages --
This is, you know, really about locals,
but do you think some of the messages
about policing from Democrats have made the problem worse?
-Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's --
It is really tough.
Like, if you, "A," like, don't feel respected.
you know, you don't have the social capital or respect,
you know, and you don't have the money -- right? --
then it's really hard to feel like this
is somewhere that you want to stay,
a career path that you want to stay in.
And I think that that's when we start, like,
losing more talent and losing good people,
and that makes it really hard.
So, yeah, I think that there absolutely are problems,
absolutely are problems.
But underfunding isn't making those problems better.
-Fair enough.
So, I'm looking at the clock and some of the promises
that I made to your staff, and so I'm going to say
that we're out of time.
And I want to thank you so much,
Representative Gluesenkamp Perez,
for giving us all this time.
And I want to thank the audiences,
and there are three of them.
Thank you so much for the time and thanks for watching.
♪♪